Hysteria: COVID-19 for everybody.

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Hysteria: COVID-19 for everybody.

Post#31 by Rava » 21 Mar 2020, 10:06

brokenman wrote:
21 Mar 2020, 00:03
Generally a virus mutates into a slightly weaker form. A virus doesn't want to kill it's host. It needs the host to survive. I certainly hope the mutation will be less deadly. In any case there will certainly be a second wave.
I do hope so as well. I was just saying that the last pandemic or similar proportions got worse in the second wave.
francois wrote:
21 Mar 2020, 01:07
I wondered what was going on for the poor on the street. Here in Montreal, though spring just came in, temperature still occillate between -9 oC and 3 oC. To prevent the spreading of infection, there is no more shelter while eating the popular soup. Most communautary establishment prepare take out meals. Homeless have to eat their food on the street alone in the cold.
That sounds really awful. :cry:
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Post#32 by francois » 21 Mar 2020, 12:51

Generally a virus mutates into a slightly weaker form. A virus doesn't want to kill it's host. It needs the host to survive. I certainly hope the mutation will be less deadly. In any case there will certainly be a second wave.
I do not think that this is really based on scientific evidence. This is more what could be called wishful thinking. Or else cite your sources. ;) :hammer:

Malaria is the number one killer on earth. Only recently, a vaccine has been created, its efficacy is 26%.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 3615007254

Without a vaccine, ebola would not be controlled.
Ebola vaccine

There is research for a vaccine for covid-19, but it should not be available before a year.
https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/new ... al-trials/

Meanwhile, it is estimated that 70 % of the population will get covid-19. Less than 2% of the population will die of this micro-organism. Without a vaccine, as humans our best weapon against the threat is our immune system: antibodies against antigenes. Here the antigene is covid-19.
Antigen-antibody interaction

Pasteur is your savior.
Louis Pasteur :worship:
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Post#33 by Rava » 22 Mar 2020, 03:51

Medical Malpractice Caused the 1918 Spanish Flu Deaths
The year before the Spanish Flu pandemic, Bayer lost their patent on aspirin, so drug companies went into over-drive producing vast quantities of cheap, generic aspirin, of which the military purchased large amounts. According to Mercola, during the pandemic, doctors were prescribing between 25 and 250 aspirin tablets a day to reduce fever. Troops had too-easy access to large quantities of aspirin. On the other hand, Pediatricians advised against aspirin for children. And, the elderly couldn’t afford to buy much. Consequently, those who were usually afflicted did not suffer the extreme death rate that young adults did.
Also:
One of the article’s by-lines is “After years of sometimes bizarre research, why are scientists still baffled by the 1918 Spanish flu?” [Link] No, they’re not baffled. They know the answer. But, they’re covering up the fact that the medical community was complicit in millions of these Spanish Flu deaths. Dr. Mercola confirmed this in, “Lessons from a Century After the Flu Epidemic of 1918: How Conventional Medicine Killed Millions and How Homeopathic Medicines Saved Millions.” [Link]

It was primarily the misuse of aspirin that did it. Aspirin, in addition to reducing pain also reduces fever. Dr. Mercola writes, “It is widely recognized that fever is a vital defense of the body in its efforts to fight infection. A fever enables the body to increase its production of interferon, an important antiviral substance that is critical for fighting infection. Fever also increases white blood cell mobility and activity, which are instrumental factors in fighting infection.”

In other words, it makes little sense to suppress the body’s natural defenses against viral infection. Fever is a symptom, not the cause of a disease. Dr. Mercola writes, “too many medical doctors today prescribe drugs that work directly against the body’s self-defensive efforts, including fevers.” And, that’s what doctors did during the Spanish Flu pandemic and what they continue doing today.
(Highlighting by me)

One other issue:

They compared the number of deaths in combat between Vietnam (US) and Falkland (British side of Falkland)
Doctors at the beginning have been confused: the death rate of comparably wounded in the Falkland war have been much higher than in Vietnam. In Vietnam, field medics have been more scarce compared to Falkland war, and so wounded have been left alone, while most were treated right away in the Falkland war.

So, then why was the mortality rate with comparably wounded much higher in Falkland than in Vietnam (not the total numbers, of course, cause Falkland was much shorter than Vietnam and included less soldiers)

After research they realized that the main difference was: the quick treatment of wounded included combating the low blood pressure.

Now, when one is wounded, you can have outer wounds that bleed and you should stop that by bandaging, but there can be also inner bleeding where you not see the wounds or bleedings right away, but the patient can die due to blood loss nonetheless, even when it is not to be seen since the blood not spills to the outside. Same is true with accident patients, e.g. severe car or bicycle accidents.

Now, same with fewer: the body rises the temperature cause it tries to change the environment for the infectants so that either bacteria, mold, viruses or others have a less than ideal environment, and rising the temperature is one such approach by the immune system. According to this article
Fever also increases white blood cell mobility and activity, which are instrumental factors in fighting infection.
Now, with the Falkland vs Vietnam war: after research doctors found out that counter combating the low blood pressure right away was a mistake. If the body realizes there is blood loss due to inner or outer bleedings, it makes much sense that the body reduces the blood pressure: less blood pressure, less blood loss in the same time period compared to normal blood pressure.

So, in Vietnam more soldiers survived cause often they kept the blood pressure as it was (much lower than average) due to lack of field medics.

And in the Falkland war, they counter combated the low blood pressure, not knowing that this causes all patients with inner bleedings to die due to blood loss.

So, we have the same issue here: severe ill patients dying due to doctors counter combating the immune systems immediate response.

During the Spanish Flue they administered too much Aspirin and they did not know of Aspirin poisoning back then. (This part is not mentioned in the linked article avove, but it is mentioned elsewhere e.g. on the wikipedia article about the 1918/19 Spanish Flu)

They counter combated the raised body temperature during the Spanish Flu. And in Falkland war they counter combated the lowered blood pressure.

So, in both occasions many patients died due to wrong treatment.

And it seems, they learned not much, that they now do the same mistake, counter combating the fewer the body produces to reduce the proliferation of Covid-19 by giving Paracetamol to combat the fever…
Last edited by Rava on 22 Mar 2020, 04:01, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: better highlighting of quotes
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Post#34 by francois » 22 Mar 2020, 18:28

Rava, I have nothing against you. So do not take it personal. In fact, I have much respect for you.

And mostly, I love to debate. So the better argument should win. And if you have the better argument, I will be happy to have learned something worth with this debate. :)

1918: Spanish flu
According to Mercola, during the pandemic, doctors were prescribing between 25 and 250 aspirin tablets a day to reduce fever.
And what is the conclusion for todays epidemic? No intervention or a better intervention based on better knowledge.

When you have a tooth abcess, you just let providence do the job or you search for the best intervention?
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... c-20350901
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ly-kill-y/

And in the Falkland war, they counter combated the low blood pressure, not knowing that this causes all patients with inner bleedings to die due to blood loss.
And what is the conclusion for todays epidemic? No intervention or a better intervention based on best knowledge and practice?

Science draws theory and solutions from facts. And if the solutions do not resolve the problem, this is a scientific fact. Which in turn will bring eventually better solutions.

The usefulness of vaccine, when they are good is an evidence. A bad vaccine is not useful. A scientifically recognized good medical practice is a fact and should be applied. A scientifically bad medical practice and should not be used.

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Post#35 by Rava » 22 Mar 2020, 19:14

francois wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 18:28
Rava, I have nothing against you. So do not take it personal. In fact, I have much respect for you.
Same here!
francois wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 18:28
And what is the conclusion for todays epidemic? No intervention or a better intervention based on better knowledge.
Better intervention based on better knowledge. Mainly reducing the fever is a bad idea, same with my other example: with people who got shot or suffered a severe accident, mainly normalizing the blood pressure is also a very bad idea.
When you have a tooth abcess, you just let providence do the job or you search for the best intervention?
Providence is usually a very bad advice when it comes to acute illness, just saying.
I search for the best intervention of course.

And that is not always the first thing a doctor would suggest, some doctors are mainly pill pushers, and others might not know enough, e.g. with the passive immunity and tetanus. (I think I not explained that part on here, since I replied to online articles and wrote emails about medical stuff for the last 2 days, so I cannot remember every detail on which platform I already explained what.)
francois wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 18:28
And in the Falkland war, they counter combated the low blood pressure, not knowing that this causes all patients with inner bleedings to die due to blood loss.
And what is the conclusion for todays epidemic? No intervention or a better intervention based on best knowledge and practice?
Again: Better intervention based on better knowledge.

Just because some interventions did make the situations worse in the past does not mean no intervention at all.

But repeating the same mistakes than 30 or 100 years ago, does that sound like the best intervention to you we could use today?
francois wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 18:28
Science draws theory and solutions from facts. And if the solutions do not resolve the problem, this is a scientific fact. Which in turn will bring eventually better solutions.
Not always. Around the world there is a seemingly science based criticism of Homoeopathy. Most people who are part of this anti-Homoeopathy believe they do it for scientific reasons. (Some do it for Big Pharma)
The issue here is: modern physics, especially physics about quantum theory and about Quarks explains quite well how and why high-level Homoeopathy indeed works. I refer to the "LM potents" here where you no longer can detect even a single molecule of the starting material that got potentiated.
Still, people think they act according to science when they criticize Homoeopathy based on the physics of Newton, either not knowing or intentionally ignoring all physic knowledge since Einstein and newer.

I try to demonstrate with the example of Homoeopathy that seemingly scientific arguments can be anything but when seen with modern physics.
francois wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 18:28
The usefulness of vaccine, when they are good is an evidence. A bad vaccine is not useful. A scientifically recognized good medical practice is a fact and should be applied. A scientifically bad medical practice and should not be used.
I fully agree.

But the issue is: Big Pharma is not really interested in the best technique that heals the best, especially when there is not much to gain for them.

Just one example to illustrate that point:
In Germany, we have two kind of health insurance funds: the public ones and the private ones.
A large public health insurance fund named Techniker Krankenkasse (could be translated as "Technicians health insurance fund") did make several years ago a three years research study on back pain and acupuncture.
They paid for that study with their own money. Prior to that usually no public health insurance fund would pay acupuncture.

The result of the study was: acupuncture helps better than any other technique or drug.
It has less undesirable side effects than any other technique.
And it is less expansive than any other drug or technique.

After that study, all public health insurance funds pay acupuncture, but only for back pain, cause the study only covered that.

When it comes to the Big Pharma lobby there would be no paid acupuncture and only prescriptions of cheep produced and expansive sold drugs.
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Post#36 by francois » 22 Mar 2020, 20:42

Big Pharma is not really interested in the best technique
You are right, they are mainly interested in making big cash. This is why it is said that only new drugs have few secondary effects. However, once more, those pharmacological companies that are really serious want to keep the client purchasing their health solutions. They better have good products, and some have.

Aspirin is presently one of the best drug to prevent stroke in people who have had stroke once, and its seems that adding statin improves the issue. However, if you never had stroke, you better not take this anticoagulant as it could provoke hemorrhages.

On statin:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2209700584
If you want to read the complete article, I imagine that you know about sci hub, the russian site? ;)
Sci-Hub
If not, I will explain what it does.

Acupuncture has been demonstrated as reducing pain even before the 1980's (two free articles, wow, on post-operative pain, and on chronic pain), on
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?te ... ain+review
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29198932
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4784927/

Homeopathy, you bring some arguments. :no:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32152694
DOI: 10.1007/s00508-020-01624-x
Let's read it together. Plug the doi into sci hub.

I will have to dig into that one. However, a good article would be much appreciated.
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Post#37 by Rava » 22 Mar 2020, 20:50

francois wrote:
22 Mar 2020, 20:42
If you want to read the complete article, I imagine that you know about sci hub, the russian site? ;)
Sci-Hub
If not, I will explain what it does.
No, never heard from it, or maybe once a long time ago and forgot.

Please do explain.
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Post#38 by francois » 23 Mar 2020, 18:37

SCI HUB
Read about sci hub here. It will give you free access to scientific articles. The journals usually charge 25$ can by article, though some are free.
Sci-Hub

Google sci hub and you will get to the site. Use the DOI to get the complete scientific article for free. For example the doi for that citation of the NCBI research engine:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26239119
Here DOI is:
DOI: 10.1517/17425255.2015.1076391

MEDLINE the reseach engine:
PubMed
*****************************************************************
COVID-19
A study is starting right now to protect people from deletary effects of covid-19 in Montreal.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... ode=iemt20
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Post#39 by S4m4n » 25 Mar 2020, 20:31

Greetings from Iran,

We have a corrupt government whose citizens has the last priority. Number of infected and deceased cases are only known to government and If it could be broadcasted like everywhere it could easily compete with Italy stats. :cry:
Supreme leader blames it all on US gov and Elves :pardon: recommending Iranians saying prayers rather than medical procedures.

We all try to sustain and stay at houses but government has no serious strategy, and we have to go back to work within next few days, So I have to choose between my family and my Job!

Sorry to trouble you, keep safe!

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Post#40 by Rava » 25 Mar 2020, 20:42

There are also doctors, lung doctors and virologists who see many issues with the Corona lock-downs everywhere, cause there is a lack of evidence that the virus which is tested with the new test is indeed a killer virus.

Here is just one of such doctors:

https://www.wodarg.com/
1.3.2020 Corona-Hype:

Without PCR-Tests there would be no reason for special alarms.

We are currently not measuring the incidence of coronavirus diseases, but the activity of the specialists searching for them.



by Wolfgang Wodarg

The corona hype is not based on any extraordinary public health danger. However, it causes considerable damage to our freedom and personal rights through frivolous and unjustified quarantine measures and restrictions. The images in the media are frightening and the traffic in China's cities seems to be regulated by the clinical thermometer.

Evidence based epidemiological assessment is drowning in the mainstream of fear mongers in labs, media and ministries.

The carnival in Venice was cancelled after an elderly dying hospital patient was tested positive. When a handful of people in Northern Italy also were tested positive, Austria immediately closed the Brenner Pass temporarily.
Due to a suspected case of coronavirus, more than 1000 people were not allowed to leave their hotel in Tenerife. On the cruise ship Diamond Princess 3700 passengers could not disembark., Congresses and touristic events are cancelled, economies suffer and schools in Italy have an extra holyday.

At the beginning of February, 126 people from Wuhan were brought to Germany by plane and remained there in quarantine two weeks in perfect health. Corona viruses were detected in two of the healthy individuals.
We have experienced similar alarmist actions by virologists in the last two decades. WHO's "swine flu pandemic" was in fact one of the mildest flu waves in history and it is not only migratory birds that are still waiting for "birds flu". Many institutions that are now again alerting us to the need for caution have let us down and failed us on several occasions. Far too often, they are institutionally corrupted by secondary interests from business and/or politics.

If we do not want to chase frivolous panic messages, but rather to responsibly assess the risk of a spreading infection, we must use solid epidemiological methodology. This includes looking at the "normal", the baseline, before you can speak of anything exceptional.
Until now, hardly anyone has paid attention to corona viruses. For example, in the annual reports of the Robert-Koch-Institute (RKI) they are only marginally mentioned because there was SARS in China in 2002 and because since 2012 some transmissions from dromedaries to humans have been observed in Arabia (MERS). There is nothing about a regularly recurring presence of corona viruses in dogs, cats, pigs, mice, bats and in humans, even in Germany.
However, children's hospitals are usually well aware, that a considerable proportion of the often severe viral pneumonia is also regularly caused or accompanied by corona viruses worldwide.

In view of the well-known fact that in every "flu wave" 7-15% of acute respiratory illnesses (ARI) are coming along with coronaviruses, the case numbers that are now continuously added up are still completely within the normal range.
About one per thousand infected are expected to die during flu seasons. By selective application of PCR-tests - for example, only in clinics and medical outpatient clinics - this rate can easily be pushed up to frightening levels, because those, who need help there are usually worse off than those, who are recovering at home. The role of such s selection bias seems to be neglected in China and elsewhere.

Since the turn of the year, the focus of the public, of science and of health authorities has suddenly narrowed to some kind of blindness. Some doctors in Wuhan (12 million inhabitants) succeeded in attracting worldwide attention with initially less than 50 cases and some deaths in their clinic, in which they had identified corona viruses as the pathogen.
The colourful maps that are now being shown to us on paper or screens are impressive, but they usually have less to do with disease than with the activity of skilled virologists and crowds of sensationalist reporters.

We are currently not measuring the incidence of coronavirus diseases, but the activity of the specialists searching for them.

Wherever such the new tests are carried out - there about 9000 tests per week available in 38 laboratories throughout Europe on 13 February 2020 – there are at least single cases detected and every case becomes a self-sustaining media event. The fact alone that the discovery of a coronavirus infection is accompanied by a particularly intensive search in its vicinity explains many regional clustersi.

The horror reports from Wuhan were something, that virologists all over the world are waiting for. Immediately, the virus strains present in the refrigerators were scanned and compared feverishly with the reported newcomers from Wuhan. A laboratory at the Charité won the race at the WHO and was the first to be allowed to market its in-house tests worldwide. Prof C. Drosten was interviewed on 23rd of january 2020 and described how the Test was established. He said, that he cooperated with a Partner from China, who confirmed the specific sensitivity of the Charitè-Test for the Wuhan coronavirus. Other Tests from different Places followed soon and found their market.

However, it is better not to be tested for corona viruses. Even with a slight "flu-like" infection the risk of coronavirus detection would be 7% - 15% . This is, what a prospective monitoring in Scotland (from 2005 to 2013) may teach us. The scope, the possible hits and the significance of the new tests are not jet validated. It would be interesting to have some tests not only on airports and cruising ships but on German or Italian cats, mice or even bats.

If you find some new virus RNA in a Thai cave or a Wuhan hospital, it takes a long time to map its prevalence in different hosts worldwide.

But if you want to give evidence to a spreading pandemic by using PCR-Tests only, this is what should have been done after a prospective cross sectional protocol.


So beware of side effects. Nowadays positive PCR tests have tremendous consequences for the everyday life of the patient and his wider environment, as can be seen in all media without effort.

However, the finding itself has no clinical significance. It is just another name for acute respiratory illnesses (ARI), which as every year put 30% to 70% of all people in our countries more or less out of action for a week or two every winter.
According to a prospective ARI-virus monitoring in Scotland from 2005 to 2013, the most common pathogens of acute respiratory diseases were: 1. rhinoviruses, 2. influenza A viruses, 3. influenza B viruses, 4. RS viruses and 5. coronaviruses.
This order changed slightly from year to year. Even with viruses competing for our mucous membrane cells, there is apparently a changing quorum, as we know it from our intestines in the case of microorganisms and from the Bundestag in the case of political groups.

So if there is now to be an increasing number of "proven" coronavirus infections. in China or in Italy: Can anyone say how often such examinations were carried out in previous winters, by whom, for what reason and with which results? When someone claims that something is increasing, he must surely refer to something, that has been observed before.

It can be stunning, when an experienced disease control officer looks at the current turmoil, the panic and the suffering it causes. I'm sure many of those responsible public health officers would probably risk their jobs today, as they did with the "swine flu" back then, if they would follow their experience and oppose the mainstream.

Every winter we have a virus epidemic with thousands of deaths and with millions of infected people even in Germany. And coronaviruses always have their share.
So if the Federal Government wants to do something good, it could learn from epidemiologists in Glasgow and have all clever minds at the RKI observe prospectively (!!!) and watch how the virom of the German population changes from year to year.



Some questions for the evaluation of the current findings:
  • Which prospective, standardised monitoring of acute respiratory diseases with or without fever (ILI, ARI) is used for the epidemiological risk assessment of coronavirus infections observed in Wuhan Italy, South Korea, Iran and elsewhere (baseline).
  • How do the comparable (!) results of earlier observations differ from those now reported by the WHO? (in China, in Europe, in Italy, in Germany, etc.)
  • What would we observe this ARI-season if we would ignore the new PCR-testing?
  • How valid and how comparable are the detection methods used with regard to sensitivity, specificity and pathogenetic or prognostic relevance?
  • What is the evidence or probability that the observed corona viruses 2019/2020 are more dangerous to public health than previous variants?
  • If you find them now, how can you proove, they were not there (e.g. in animals) before.
  • How do you make shure, that a positive tested case is not in the same time suffering/dying from other virus co-infections?
  • What considerations have been made or taken into account to exclude or minimise sources of bias (sources of error)?
24.3.20, Some important questions for science:
  • Is Covid-19 in Italy a model for the pandemics that threatens the world?
  • What does the SARS-2-CoV test really measure?
  • Is it possible, that so many infected are so easily recovering if it is a really new virus?
  • What is the pathogenetic role and impact of Covid-19 compared to „normal" flu?
  • Which preventive actions are necessary in addition to those during normal flu-seasons?
In the original there are lots of links to be found, I did not copy all these links, if you want to look into his arguments further I urge you to visit the listed URL and visit the links in this article.
Cheers!
Yours Rava

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Post#41 by Ed_P » 26 Mar 2020, 06:25

S4m4n wrote:
25 Mar 2020, 20:31
Greetings from Iran,
Greetings S4m4n. In my opinion jobs can be replaced, family can not.
Rava wrote:
25 Mar 2020, 20:42
There are also doctors, lung doctors and virologists who see many issues with the Corona lock-downs everywhere, cause there is a lack of evidence that the virus which is tested with the new test is indeed a killer virus.
I suggest the doctors in doubt should volunteer to work in hospitals where the virus is prevalent. New York City has openings. I'm sure there are hospitals in Spain and Italy that do also. The old saying seeing is believing should work. :happy62:
Ed

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Post#42 by Rava » 26 Mar 2020, 06:58

He is a medical doctor specialized in lung illnesses, e.g. the common cold or common influenza.
Ed_P wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 06:25
I suggest the doctors in doubt should volunteer to work in hospitals where the virus is prevalent. New York City has openings. I'm sure there are hospitals in Spain and Italy that do also. The old saying seeing is believing should work. :happy62:
He and others not claim that there are no deaths, but they claim there is a lack of usual procedure when the genetic test for Covid19 was approved, compared to how it usually works. And that there is a lack of proof if that one virus is really the killer.

He presents a statistic by the Italian health authorities:
Image
I think I need to translate this slide.
On the left side it says
Italy
In Italy as well or in a retirement home
the test is not measuring
any cause of death.
The test only shows
that the sick had contact
with one of the many variants
of SARS viridae.


And on the right:

Dead people with positive SARS2-CoV-Test in Italy
[blue] (1%) no other illnesses
[green] (25%) one other illness
[yellow] (26%) two other illnesses
[red] (49%) three other illnesses

Source: ISS National Health Administration Italy, 17. March 2020


So, 99% of the dead people in Italy tested positive for CoV have had at least one other illness, 49% even had 3 other illnesses.
Only 1% had no other illness.

When 99% of persons who died who tested positive on CoV had other illnesses, is that an obvious proof that all these other illnesses had nothing to do with the death, and only CoV-19 was the cause of death? To me it sounds more like the opposite.

And the critics say patients die due to common influenza, and the total numbers are not any other than they are in other years. (Each year thousands of people die due to common influenza; it never gets mentioned in the media unless it was a prominent person who died)
The only difference now is that mainly sick patients get tested for CoV and that skews the outcome of the statistics.
Like he explained with the tests on Corona viridae epidemiologists did in Glasgow.

Did you actually look up some of the arguments he gives and tried to disprove him wrong?
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Post#43 by S4m4n » 26 Mar 2020, 07:34

Thanks man, It is obvious.Hope to see the day that we overcome this nightmare. People lives perish like falling leaves in autumn... :cry:
Ed_P wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 06:25
S4m4n wrote:
25 Mar 2020, 20:31
Greetings from Iran,
Greetings S4m4n. In my opinion jobs can be replaced, family can not.

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Hysteria: COVID-19 for everybody.

Post#44 by Rava » 26 Mar 2020, 09:33

S4m4n wrote:
26 Mar 2020, 07:34
Hope to see the day that we overcome this nightmare.
That I hope as well. Mid February Italy and Spain went through the official EU techniques to request help from EU member states due to their health system being unable to cope.

When a member state e.g. France or Germany wants to send aid material, the EU would pay 75% of the transport costs.

While Germany did sent indeed material to Italy, it not went through this official EU way. Not even a single EU country so far responded to the help pleas from Italy and Spain.

All in all, there was more help coming from Russia and from China than from the EU.

The very same politicians who told us in the past how good a tight-together EU is, and how bad individual states and other right-winged politics are, and how bad Russia and China is… now obviously all fail to hold up the common EU ideas - where is the being there for Italy and Spain in March of 2020?
And I presume it would not improve in April.

And of course the USA is not helping anyone other than themselves either.

I hope Iran gets help from foreign countries, some politicians already said that sending medical help material not falls under the USA backed embargo against Iran.

Added in 3 hours 55 minutes 58 seconds:
What I forgot to add to the above post about the doctors criticising parts of what is currently going on.

The critics of the mainstream approach claim the deaths in Italy and Madrid are mainly due to pollution and the medical system being overloaded and underfunded for years.
I have not seen any proof about that. There could be some truth to that, or not so much.

But what really is strange: doctors are dying as well, usually they not die because of a common cold of patients, or because of usual influenza viridae.
And the doctor in Wuhan who first warned that something strange is going on with the current influenza was taken in by police in January and was forced to sign a paper that states that he is spreading untruths to damage the communist system. The very same doctor later died and it is said he died due to Covid-19.

These are maybe only small facts, but they sound like serious business.

Also I could not confirm that, but I heard from several sources that there are two military-grade institutions in Wuhan that do research on biological weapons.

On the other hand, I also heard the USA analysed the gene code of the Covid-19 coronavirus and they claim it is not made in a laboratory but is just a natural mutation.

But who is really able to put so many conflicting info together and to come to one fitting explanation of what is happening?
Cheers!
Yours Rava

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Hysteria: COVID-19 for everybody.

Post#45 by Ed_P » 27 Mar 2020, 04:09

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